πŸ’° Blackjack Myths Exposed - Easy Money Blackjack

Most Liked Casino Bonuses in the last 7 days πŸ–

Filter:
Sort:
BN55TO644
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 500

Hit Blackjack so you can spin the wheel. You and everyone else playing could win an additional prize! Bonus Spin Blackjack Progressive: $43477 As of Dece.


Enjoy!
General Discussion - So many stupid blackjack players
Valid for casinos
Blackjack Myths Exposed - Easy Money Blackjack
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
angry blackjack players

A67444455
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 500

So many stupid blackjack players... about these scenarios as much but would you feel there will be some other angry people at the tables?


Enjoy!
General Discussion - So many stupid blackjack players
Valid for casinos
[Solved] Scenario 2: Tucker Cartwrite was playing blackjack at the Gold Dust Casino in Deadwood SD. He became angry that he was losing money and deci... | Course Hero
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
Blackjack Mistakes to Avoid

JK644W564
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 200

A frustrated blackjack player e-mailed me with a familiar lament.. A legitimate reason to be angry at the player who drew the 10? Not so fast.


Enjoy!
Angry players take fun out of playing blackjack | artwinajans.com
Valid for casinos
Blackjack - Don't Let Other Players' Mistakes Bother You - Tunica
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
Blackjack Mistakes to Avoid

TT6335644
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 200

I used to play blackjack 5-6 days a week for almost 3 years .. Here are some of my favorite responses to angry players. I don't use them all,Β ...


Enjoy!
blackjack played badly by others - why get so angry? - Las Vegas Forum - TripAdvisor
Valid for casinos
Blackjack Myths Exposed - Easy Money Blackjack
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
angry blackjack players

A67444455
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
50 xB
Max cash out:
$ 1000

A card counter wants everyone playing basic strategy blackjack around... Or what if they pulled a 4, 5, 2, and J. You might get angry at the 4Β ...


Enjoy!
Reddit - changemyview - CMV: People who get angry at the others at a blackjack table when they make a suboptimal play are being irrational
Valid for casinos
Can Other Blackjack Players Hurt Your Odds? | Best Online Gambling
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
Angry Blackjack man

B6655644
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 1000

A guide to help you learn to play online blackjack, with a basic strategy table,. One of the most important things you can learn about as a blackjack player is how the... Don't take your anger out on the dealers if you are experiencing a losingΒ ...


Enjoy!
BLACKJACK DEALER - Chicago Tribune
Valid for casinos
Blackjack - Don't Let Other Players' Mistakes Bother You - Tunica
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
After skimming through that 30+ post blackjack thread a couple minutes ago, I decided I would write this post, to finally lay down the law on what the deal is with blackjack.
If you don't already know all of this, two things will happen as a result of you reading this: 1.
For a brief here of time you will become very angry, because you will have a minor "world-comes-crashing-down sensation when you realize that a game which you thought you were legitimately winning at, and had as a reasonable source of income, is actually just a game you lucked out at, and won short-term in but will lose long-term in.
After the anger subsides, you will reread what I wrote, and realize that I actually did you a gigantic favor by both informing you that if you kept up what you were doing you would lose in the long run, and that if you instead did what I am going to tell you to do, you would win in the long run instead of lose.
Okay here we go guys, this is what you need to know about blackjack.
Blackjack is a game that is played against the house.
The general rule is that for any game you play against the house, such as blackjack, roullette, craps, etc they make it impossible to gain an edge in the long run over the house, via setting up a game where they have an edge simply due to the mechanics of the game.
This is different from say, poker, where you are not playing against the house, but rather you are playing against other opponents, much like yourself, and the house is merely raking a bit on the side as you play.
In poker the house does not try to angry blackjack players you at the game since it would take too much effort to actually beat you in a skill game where they have no mechanical edgebut they instead just scrape a couple angry blackjack players off ever pot you guys play instead.
In the table games however, they are playing you, and they must have a long-term edge over you otherwise their casino would simply go out of business after a few months of playing with a negative edge against all the casino clients.
Instead of starting off by explaining why it is that the house has a natural mechanical edge over you in the game of blackjack, let me first give you an example of how the house has a "mechanical" edge over you in the game of roullette, so that you understand what I mean by this natural edge.
In roullette there are an equal number of black squares, and red squares to choose from.
If there were no green squares, you could theoretically play for you whole life for 10 hours a day every day year after year, decade after decade, and expect to make no money after all these tens of thousands of hours of playing.
Sure every now and then you might have a hot day, and every now and then you might have a cold day, but in the long run, if there were only red tiles and black tiles, and no green tiles, and you kept picking red or black, you would neither gain nor lose any edge on the house, and they would neither gain nor lose any edge on you.
In roullette if and only if there were no green tiles, but only an equal number of red and black tiles lining the edge of the wheel, then in the long run, the ball would land on red half the time, and black half the time.
So its essentially the exact same thing as flipping a quarter, and wagering even money on the flip of the coin.
If you place a 1 dollar bet that the coin comes up tails, and your buddy placed a 1 dollar bet that it would come up heads, and you tried this several hundred million times, assuming you were both immortal, and had no access to sorority chicks, and so on, then in the super duper long run, you would both expect to have 1 dollar give or take a few bucks at the end of the match.
Unfortunately, when you play roullette, there is a green tile.
And since you never win when your ball hits green and they always win when your ball hits green, thats the tiny edge they get over you.
Now, you might wonder to yourself.
It isnt a very huge negative edge, only a couple percent per bet placed, but as long as that green tile is there, that negative edge is there, and that green tile is always there.
Well here's why: Just because in the long run say 100,000 bets placed would be considered "long-run" you will absolutely be guaranteed to lose money, due to that slight edge the house has over you kicking in slowly but surely over the course of such an enormous sample size of bets placed, does NOT mean that you can never experience a bit of short-term winning.
For example, it is very plausible and possible to win 6 or 7 straight times in a row while playing roullette.
Did you have an edge over the house when this occurred?
They in fact had a small edge over you on each of those 7 bets you made.
Did you win the last 7 times you bet, in a row.
It was pretty luckky that that happened, but it did happen, and so you just made a nice amount of money, in an extroardinarily short amount of time.
The problem is, these learn more here of short, ut powerful streaks of good fortune stick out in one's memory a lot better than those equally short and powerful streaks of 7 straight lost wagers in a row.
So if someone has a hundred thousand bucks in their pockets, they probly wont stick around for the several weeks it would take, playing all day every day, to lose that 100,000 via the house edge playing at low stakes roullette.
Instead they simply sit down for 20 or 30 minutes.
Make 20 or 30 bets.
And then walk off to the strip club, after either having won or lost a 100 bucks or maybe 300 bucks, or maybe 0 bucks.
In the short run, it is impossible to predict precisely what will happen, but in the long run at this roullette game where the house has a small but permanent edge over your wagers, you will absoultely positively lose your money to them if you play for long enough, it is merely a matter of time.
Okay that roullete example should give you a good idea of what things like "long run" and "edge" and "short term" mean.
Now that you understand all this, I will let you in on how blackjack works.
Just like roullette, or any of the other games where you play against the house the house simply has an unbeatable mechanical edge, due to the structure of the game.
In roullette this unbeatable edge comes from the fact blackjack accessories san antonio you have an even-money bet placed on hitting something where you have just under a 50% chance of hitting it, and they have an even-money bet placed against yours where they have just over a 50% chance of hitting what they need to hit the opposite color of what you bet on, AAAAND that little green tile of theirs.
This is their mechanical edge over you.
Unfortunately, just as they have this mechanical edge against you in roullette, they have a mechanical edge against you in blackjack.
That is because if you bust over 21, you lose, and they win even if they would have busted as well.
This fact makes it impossible to gain an edge over them even if you play perfect basic strategy.
Let's get the facts straight guys.
In the game of blackjack, the house has a mechanical and permanent edge over you.
For most of the people who stroll in and plop down at a table, the house has a big edge, because they have their natural mechanical edge, plus they gain additional edge any time the novice makes a play that is not in accordance to basic strategy.
It has been estimated, that when you tally up everyone, including all the drunkards, and superstitious folks for example, people who stand on 9, for no reason, even though its impossible to bust by hitting and so on and so forth, the house has an edge of something near 10% per hand over the crowd on average.
Most of you guys who posted about how you thought you had an edge over the house in blackjack in that blackjack post that I read a few minutes ago took pride in you ability to play perfect basic strategy.
I do not doubt this one bit.
Here is the problem however.
If you play absolutely literally flawless basic strategy, you still lose in the long run against the house in blackjack.
The reason is this: If you play absolutely flawless basic strategy at blackjack, the house maintains a 1.
There is absolutely nothing you can do about this 1.
Thats as close as you can get to beating them.
You miss by 1.
You may win read article dollars in one luckier-than-fck night.
You may make 0 dollars in one very mildly lucky night.
You may lose 100,000 dollars in one click to see more night.
That isn't the point.
The point is that by using perfect basic strategy, you will be giving up a 1.
Its as simple as that.
This is a fact.
Here's what you can do about it: Card count If you card count, you will have roughly a 2% edge over the house per hand played in the long run, rather than the other way around, and in the long run you will win.
This edge will vary from casino to casino, based on how deep they go into the show before shuffling.
The deeper they go relative to the amount of cards the shoe started with prior to shuffling, the larger your card counting edge is, because you can take notice of ever increasing positive counts that may occurr near the end of an unshuffled shoe.
The way it works is that, the more high cards there are in the deck compared to how many there should be in the deck, the better it is for you.
If you are card counting, you are keeping track of how many high cards you have seen, and how many low cards you have seen.
If you notice that you have seen a lot more low cards than high cards, that means the deck is saturated with an unnaturally high proportion of high cards compared to normal.
This is a bad thing for the dealer, and a good thing for you.
It is one thing if there are 10 more high cards in the deck than normal, when there are till 200 cards left in the shoe, and it is another thing when there are 10 more high cards than normal, but there are only 60 cards left in the shoe.
The severity of high-card-richness of the shoe is much greater when there are 10 more high cards than there should be in a shoe with 60 remaining cards than a shoe with 200 remaining cards.
This means you gain a much larger edge per hand when max betting into a high-card-rich shoe that has very few cards left in it, than max betting into an equally high-card-rich show that has a whole bunch of cards left in it.
And that is why I say that although your negative edge against the house will always be -1.
Your positive edge per hand if you do card count in addition to playing perfect basic strategy will vary from casino to casino.
In casinos that shuffle a bit earlier than most, meaning they dont go very deep into their shoe without shuffling, you cannot gain as big an edge as in casinos where they go very very deep into the shoe before shuffling.
This is because of the stuff I said above, about high card richness in relation to casablanca blackjack amount of cards left in the shoe.
So depending on how deep or shallow they go into the shoe prior to shuffling, you card counting should yield somewhere between a 1 and 5% edge per hand played against the house, if you are both playing perfect basic strategy and card counting.
If you use a partner to cardcount you can get up to a big over a 10% edge per click to see more played, but thats a whole nother story, dealing with "BP" usage and so forth, I won't get into that.
The important thing to remember is that if you card count, and play perfect basic strategy, you overcome the 1.
However if you simply play basic strategy and dont also card count, there is no way to defeat the 1.
Those are the facts.
They are not opinions.
They are not theories.
They can be written out mathematically on a chalkboard and proven, and they can simply be proven by recording a months worth of blackjack play, and noticing that the edge attained per hand of a player who played against the house using angry blackjack players basic strategy, but no card counting, will be hovering somewhere between -1.
Okay I hope I saved you guys a lot of money, and a lot of your children's college funds and so forth with that little intro to math, and probability, and gambling, and blackjack discussion.
If you had any trouble understanding any of it, feel free to send me a personal message.
Hell, if enough people misread, or misunderstand this post, I may create a longer, more in depth, and complete version of this, and submit it as an article.
We'll see what happens.
What is hole carding?
Well, in live casinos, in pitch games where the dealer actually holds the deck and deals the cards some professional blackjack players have an ability to exploit weak dealers, as the dealer puts down the dealers down card, a small % of dealers angry blackjack players slightly expose the down card for a brief part of a second, in which a trained eye can pick up the dealers down card as high as 90% of the time.
This gives the player an edge of over 20%.
Casinos are aware of holecarders and do look out for them, so many players get barred from many casinos, resulting in different identities and appearance changes, also not the easiest lifestyle, but virtually the only way you can stick it to the house in blackjack.
The reason you can't cardcount online is that they shuffle after every hand.
Thus the best you can do online is play perfectly flawless basic strategy, and fork over a 1.
In poker the house does not try to beat you at the game since it would take too much effort to actually beat you in a skill game where they have no mechanical edgebut they instead just scrape a couple chips off ever pot you guys play instead.
Say 10 people of the exact same ability play every day all day for a year so that luck is not relevant.
In this case, everyone will be a loser because the house "scrapes a couple of chips off every pot you guys play.
I realize that skill makes poker profitable for a lot of people, but I disagree with the fact that you say players are not at a disadvantage in poker against the house.
JMHO Yes, in theory poker against the rake is a NEGATIVE SUM game.
Thankfully, the situation that you describe where people of EXACTLY the same skill level play the same game with the same people everyday rarely, if ever, occurs in a 'live' or 'casino' game.
In the instance of regular pros that play against each other they do so at home Doyle's house and avoid the rake.
Not all poker players are created equal.
Some poker players are better than others.
If there were no rake, in poker, you would merely have to be 0.
However if they are raking 10%, you would instead need to be 10.
So yes, obviously the house is "beating you" at poker, since they are raking you, and they are taking free money from you where you have no risk of "beating them back.
In blackjack, you can play as flawless a basic strategy as you want, but no matter what you do, how hard you try, you will always have a -1.
In poker, it is possible to maintain a high enough edge over your opponents to more than make up for the rake that the house puts on you while you play.
This is why poker is technically a beatable game.
That's all I meant.
I hope that clarifies.
I can do it, but it go here so much mental effort for so little return that playing solid poker is a lot more fun and a lot more profitable.
The only way to make it more than marginally profitable, while trying to keep from getting barred is to play as a team see bringing down the house, a great book on the subject.
And as far as the arguement that players of equal talent will eventually lose everything to the house, sounds great, but its BS.
You'll never have angry blackjack players players of exactly equal talent sitting at the same table.
ANY difference in ability between any of the ten players ensures that one or more players will win and some will lose.
Influx of new money as people leave and different ones buy-in.
This changes the dynamic angry blackjack players 1 and creates a new pool of funds for the house to draw from.
May all p5er's be sharks in 2006.
Their edge was tiny and it took forever to obtain the edge because they had to observe a table for a while and obtain measurements about the imperfections of the table with equipment they had under their clothes.
But, statistically, they beat it.
According to the Travel Channel.
Edit: Sorry, Now I'm not sure whether it was the Travel or Discovery Channel; I think Travel.
Many of the guys here probably learned all this crap where I did the MIT cardcounting team book "bringing down the house" by ben mezrich, which he followed up with another great blackjack novel "busting vegas" which focused more on semi-cheating techniques than on card counting.
The "bp" thing deals with team play on card counting.
Essentially when you card count as an individual rather than as a team, you are forced to try to min-bet whenever the shoe is not sufficiently in your advantage to more than compensate for the house's 1.
As soon as the deck is no longer sufficiently high-card rich, you go back to min betting.
The two problems with this technique are: 1.
You waste a significant percentage of your profits that you earn when u max-bet during the high-card-rich shoe opportunites while you are min-betting waiting for the deck to get that way, which simply sucks.
It will be very easy for the floor to see what you are doing, and throw you out of their casino.
They know how to card count every bit as well as you do, so if they are card counting, and they notice that every seasoning blackjack grill the shoe becomes high-card-rich you start max-betting, and every time it isn't, you start min-betting, they'll just walk up to you and quickly mention that you are "far too great a blackjack player" to ever play in their casino again, and that will be that.
Instead you can use a far more profitable and easier to disguise technique that involves team play, anywhere from using one partner, to 4 or 5 partners.
What happens is, the first guy to sit at the table has only one role: Cardcount.
However, when the shoe becomes high-card rich, and its time to start max-betting, he instead continues to min-bet, so as not to set off any smoke alarms, and instead uses a subtle signal, such as picking his nose or something, to signal his friend s to come sit at the table, and when they sit at the table, they act drunk, and max bet away, as soon as they sit down click at this page "luckily" was right when the shoe got hot, and then they go off to barf in the bathroom as soon as the shoe gets cold.
Much tougher for the floor to recognize this as card counting on a crowded night, and much much more profitable, than solo-play.
Other techniques used to earn money at blackjack other than card counting are semi-cheating techniques.
This is what Ben's second book was on.
There are 3 techniques.
The first was to sit at a table where the dealer is a "perfect shuffler" meaning that his riffle shuffles are literally flawless, where every card gets one card placed between it and the card above it by a card from the opposing please click for source, as he shuffles.
All they did was memorize a 4-card sequence just prior to the shoe getting shuffled, and then keep track of the cards as they get "perfectly shuffled" and then use this what-card-comes-next info to their advantage down the road, when they knew what cards would be coming.
They even further optimized the strategy by setting up the hand when the card sequence ws approaching, by min betting the first 3 hands on the table, and max betting the last 3.
Then the three who min-bet would have the sole purpose of hitting or standing, in a manner that although highly sub-optimal from a basic strategy point of view example: standing on 9 or something would deliver a known card to one of the max bettors a 10,jack,queen,king,or ace for example and complete his hand where it counted on the max bet.
So although this would destroy the hand profitability on the min-bet hands, it would blow the profitability of the max-betted hands astronomically, which wayyyyyy more than made up for the profits they gave up on the min-bet hands.
The second was to sit at a table where the dealer had small hands, and would frequently expose the bottom card while cutting the deck.
They would simply practice at home, cutting to precisely 52 cards not 53, not 51, but 52, they were good and then they'd know exactly when a certain card was coming this was especially profitable when it was an ace obviously.
I can't remember what the third technique was, but you get the idea.
These are semi-cheating techniques where you use information that they are readily making available to you to your own great advantage.
It is a lot like cardcounting, but a little hairier, and it gets them a little more riled up when they catch you, than if they catch you card counting.
For example, they once got banned from an entire country for some mess they got into, and also got held at gunpoint at one point, etc.
I suggest you just read his two books if you want a more detailed story on this stuff.
His friend went off to play blackjack my dad and his friend were both MIT students ironically and yes his friend was a cardcounter.
My dad said he would meet up with his friend, but wanted to watch some woman who was betting large amounts at a nearby roullette table first.
Apparantly her husband had given her something like a few hundred bucks, or a grand or so, tops, to play with while he was off doing something else.
Unfortunately for the casino, she noticed that their roullete wheel had a certain problem with it.
Once every 3 or 4 spins or so, the ball would bounce funny.
Every time it bounced funny, it landed black.
She had about 15,000 dollars not too long after her husband left her there to play.
My dad didn't bother watching her much longer, he understood what was happening, and unfortunately didn't have much cash on him, so was not able to hop in.
But yes, every now and then you can find a freak-situation where a lot of money can be made if you have the bankroll to abuse the situation.
I'm sure there are many other great stories on things like that, but that is the only one I know personally.
First of All I Believe Calling him Black Jack is Racial Profiling, if You are calling him Black Jack when you beat him they're going to call it a hate crime and your going to do hard time for that.
So lets stick to just Jack If He's a big guy I'd hit him with a banjo.
I saw someone get hit with a banjo once.
Has anyone ever gambled in Colorado.
I don't believe there is roulette or even craps.
It's a colorado law they cant do more then that but I don't know if it's for the better for the compulsive gamblers or if it's solely to give the house a better edge.
What sucks in there is no NL holdem at the card rooms.
Maybe I need to re-evaluate how to play limit holdem there but in my opinion you have good pot odds no matter what happens so who would fold.
I went from down 150 to up 300.
Immediately after Party upgraded their software the major overhaulI started playing blackjack using the "double" method.
I played "correct" blackjack, doubled when I was supposed to https://artwinajans.com/blackjack/free-optimal-blackjack-trainer.html, split when I was supposed to split, regardless of my bet size.
I think I just realized a one-liner I could drop on RebelT that could possibly save him tens, or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of his life.
Here goes: "scroll to the top of this thread, and read the original post.
Every bet you make there is a losing bet in the longrun.
They don't have to rig the game for you angry blackjack players lose---eventually it's going to happen anyway.
The fact that you think the way you played made you deserve to win is irrelevant.
You're fighting a losing battle in that game, and your denial about the odds being against you doesn't help.
Damn 6 decks Thank you Sir, I really appriciate your time pointing me off to a better direction.
Great article Mind you---I never one time said that the odds weren't against me, or that I wasn't going to lose in the long run.
What I am saying is that for a 2 week span, my method worked perfectly, every single time.
Whether it was luck or not.
The difference is, now there is no luck at all.
Party has removed all chance that anyone can get lucky and win large amounts like I did.
First of all, no they haven't.
Ever imagine the wild thought that just as you could go on an incredibly hot streak of great luck, you could just as easily go on an incredibly cold streak of enormous terrible luck.
Well the past is the past.
All you can do now is realize that you are very lucky to have made 10k+ at a game in which you were at a constant disadvantage per hand played, and then take that money, and use it towards your poker career.
Do you even realize how overjoyed many of us would be to suddenly have more than 10k added to our poker bankrolls.
We would all be able to hop into the weekly sunday tourneys, it would be a blast.
Meanwhile you are probably going to spend it playing blackjack.
It's your money, do what you want.
I still think you should know what's smart and what isn't if you read my post carefully.
Even if you do have an itch for blackjack, at least give yourself an edge.
Here, think about this.
Cue your friends in when the shoe is red hot, and allow them to max bet away, and then take all your well deserved winnings and buy all yourselves some jetskis and strippers.
Okay, well I guess coffee and whiny women sounds wayyyyy more fun.
Hey your money right.
If you have an account, to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.
Important Information We have placed on your device to help make this website better.
You canotherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

CODE5637
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
50 xB
Max cash out:
$ 500

However i have just read the thread on players behaving badly at others bad strategy and play, and i now think i might be missing something.. So WHY do people get so angry, abusive etc and get up and walk away?. If your bad play allows the dealer to catch a card, he can beat the.


Enjoy!
Reddit - changemyview - CMV: People who get angry at the others at a blackjack table when they make a suboptimal play are being irrational
Valid for casinos
Blackjack --I don't understand... - Las Vegas Forum - TripAdvisor
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
Terrible Mistakes by Poker Pros and Dealers

G66YY644
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 200

Blackjack Plus was approved by Victoria's gambling regulator in. Public Policy Institute, said he was angry Blackjack Plus was approved.. Statistically, the return to players for the original Crown Blackjack is 99.66 per cent.


Enjoy!
Blackjack Myths Exposed | The Ultimate Blackjack Strategy Guide
Valid for casinos
Player Rage! - Blackjack - Gambling - Page 3 - Forums - Wizard of Vegas
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
Online Blackjack Dealer Laughing at My Bad Luck! Mr Green Live Casino!

TT6335644
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
50 xB
Max cash out:
$ 1000

The actions of other players do not change the math of the game in any. Even when you explain this concept to an angry blackjack player,Β ...


Enjoy!
General Discussion - So many stupid blackjack players
Valid for casinos
Blackjack Myths Exposed | The Ultimate Blackjack Strategy Guide
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
angry blackjack players

T7766547
Bonus:
Free Spins
Players:
All
WR:
60 xB
Max cash out:
$ 1000

As a blackjack dealer, I try to please the customers, who are having a good. If the player wins, we drop the tip in what's called a toke box-toke, that is,. Then I get the people who bet $10 a hand, and they're angry if they lose.


Enjoy!
BLACKJACK DEALER - Chicago Tribune
Valid for casinos
blackjack played badly by others - why get so angry? - Las Vegas Forum - TripAdvisor
Visits
Dislikes
Comments
SODAPOPPIN RISKY BLACKJACK BETS (INSANE WINS AND LOSES)